In my previous post I talked about the key concepts behind Customer FX 3.0 and the 4 key concepts underlying our strategy. In addition to concepts, Customer FX 3.0 is About Beliefs. Belief number 1 - Knowledge Should Be Free. We've been acting on
"We add value by doing, not knowing"
Very poetic ;-) Seriously, that should be our new company theme (ok, not really, I like the "Be Excellent" theme we have now, but I like what that phrase says about us).
It's well past time to move beyond the "If I tell you how to do something I have to charge you" mentality. For those who want to "do", they know that this is the place to get the knowledge (and our community sites). They'll likely figure it out anyway, we just help get them there faster. For those who need help with the "doing" part, they'll know that we're the ones that can get that part done for them - we've already shown that we have the knowledge to do it.
This is a great company :-)
"They'll likely figure it out anyway, we just help get them there faster."
Exactly - I'll end up quoting this line in the future, so here's my shout out up front.
In my previous post I related how our simple, nine word Mission Statement related to improved performance of our company. In this post I'll try to relate how it impacted one of our clients. On Thursday this past week, I had a strategic planning meeting
In my previous post I related how our simple, nine word Mission Statement related to improved performance
In my previous post I related how our simple, nine word Mission Statement related to improved performance of our company. In this post I'll try to relate how it impacted one of our clients.
Very interesting. . . Chris caught your post and sent it on to us. I'll have to see what happens in Part 2.
I know these guys and this is not true. You must not be telling the entire truth. As my dad alway said there always two sides to the story.
Buck - first of all, thanks for stopping by and joining the discussion.
You make some pretty strong statements for someone with zero firsthand knowledge of the events that have taken place.
How does "knowing them" allow you to claim "this is not true"? They are a pretty big company. Do you know everyone there?
Since you didn't link to your blog or web page I have no idea if we've ever met, or who you are. But I am left wondering why you would say "you must not be telling the entire truth".
The truth is, having been in this business for over 20 years, these types of partner conflicts are more the norm than the exception with vendors that both sell direct and through channels. This just happens to be one of the more blatant I've experienced.
As for the sage advice from your father, if you read my post I said basically the same thing - "This is my take on the situation based on what I believe to be the facts. The other party's involved may have a different view of the facts."
Hopefully Third Party will comment, or better yet pick up the phone.
Interesting, Dave. One of our engineers forwarded this post to me. I will look forward to any additional info.
I find this very interesting myself since I am looking at partnering with [name removed]. I would love an update if you have one.
Steve and Sam - will do
Interesting conversation...one I want to stay on top of. We are already a partner of <3rd Party> and haven't had any negative experiences with them as of yet. <3rd Party> is still struggling with how to maintain a business partner channel + direct sales team (same struggle that <Major> went through about 10 years ago). There are rules of engagement in place, and so far <3rd Party> has played fairly by them. We are in a different region than CustomerFX, so I wonder if your negative experience has to do with a renegade direct sales rep in your territory vs. an overall rogue attitude by the company (which we have not seen yet).
Please keep us all posted.
I attended the Partner conference for this vendor earlier this year. I can be 100% sure that this is NOT the intent or indeed, the culture of this company. Many sales organisations employ a maverick somewhere in their team; the problem is if this person is their "Top Gun"! Personally I wouldnt stand for this and I would talk directly to VP Sales and resolve.
Business in 2008 is tough in most markets. When a company has both a direct and indirect channel, unless there are clear rules of engagement, it is easy for conflict to take place. In my view this tends to be fuelled by a perceived inability of the other party to close the business. We know perception is NOT always reality. In theory the channel partner should be better equipped to deliver a well designed solution in comparison to some software salesperson. That is the competitive edge the channel has. The technology is simple so the client doesnt gain a "comfort blanket" by dealing direct.
Another point is that within our industry, some Channel Partners indiscriminately accumulate relationships with Business Application vendors. There is no way that they can properly commit to each vendor. If any vendor is to have faith in the channel as a key source of revenue that they can rely on, they need to work with Partners who are committed to them through resources and effort and not words alone. They can then see the Partner as a true extension of their direct team.
Our commitment to the <<Major>> is very luke warm and therefore we get no leads, little communication and although we are certifed to sell and deploy, they dont care if they stand on our toes. Interestingly, we understand if they might wish to jump on them!
I ended up having a conversation with the President and a channel executive from Third Party. It did not turn out to my liking, but I do understand how and why we had the issue. It has more to do with their business model than any "culture" issue. Of course, there may be differences between North America and Europe. I'm going to post an update with more on this. Thanks for stopping by David.
Sage's Annual Business Partner award ceremony. In October we announced that we had been chosen for
I am a Facebook junkie. I live on that site. :-)
Much better than Linkedin, but to be fair, they have different purposes.
What we've realized in creating our products is that one of the most important things is buy-in from the people who are supposed to use the system. If the person setting up the software can't get the rest of the organization to use it, it falls flat. So we try very hard to make sure that all users of the software feel comfortable with it. This, in our minds, include respecting the privacy settings of everyone using the system.
If Highrise didn't do this, people who desired to keep things private would just do it outside of Highrise. They'd keep in their own personal file on their own computer and would use Highrise even less. I don't think anyone would win from that.
Thanks for the thoughtful post. The approach to product development you described has led to a very nice product in Highrise. Seriously. But, is it possible for 37signals to ever get it wrong? If so, I submit this is one such case.
In no other business application I can think of do the people using it have the expectation of a right to privacy.
1. Accounting - can a user decide which invoices to hide? Delete?
2. Email - nope, to expectation of privacy. Every company policy, and the legal system say no.
3. File storage - nope.
4. Basecamp from 37signals - no<g>
Putting the most basic security model in place would take your product to the next level and greatly expand your marketplace to include most every small business under 10 employees. While you may have a niche (not exactly sure what it is) I can't think of a small business owner I know who would consider Highrise. There are many nice alternatives out there without the security flaw.
Could I be wrong? Sure. Maybe your target is virtual teams who form and disband, with nobody really owning a customer, project, customer service, etc. That would make sense. Seems like a pretty limited target market, but Highrise would be perfect in that scenario.
I certainly can't tell you what's right for your business. I absolutely respect that Highrise is not a good fit for you. I will note, though, that Highrise is the fastest growing product we've ever had and that small businesses are by far the dominant customer group. Again, that doesn't mean it's right for you just because it's right for others. Just sharing that to put this in context.
Also, I think the main point here is that if an employee wants to hide an interaction or a contact or an email or anything else, they're just not going to use systems with corporate surveillance. So if you want to send a private email, you can use your personal gmail account instead. If you want to store a price file, you can use your personal dropbox or whatever.
The point being that no controls in any software package can stop employees from willfully hiding things from their employer. That's a game you're never going to win. Instead, I think it'd be better to simply rely on policy. Your policy can be that "do not store private notes that I don't have access to in the system". If people violate that policy, they can get reprimanded or even fired.
In any case, I do appreciate the feedback on this. We're certainly not right all the time. And we're definitely not right for all the people all the time.
Well, this is nothing new of 37signals. They do have some very loyal customers, but quite a few are put off by the kind of arrogance and know-all attitude they exhibit (like on the forums). There are plenty of instances. Yet, at the end of the day, their products sell well, and I guess it will remain that way for some time to come.
Having used Highrise for a month now I must agree with the author's security points. This morning I thought through the process of using an outside contractor to perform telemarketing. No can do with Highrise; too risky. I'll be moving on shortly and it's too bad because the sales people love it. Salesforce has done a great job of making a once understandable tool into a house of mirrors. I went with Highrise because I don't have the time to learn to Salesforce even though it's pricing is small business acceptable.
One measure of protection for Highrise's data insecurity is to export it every day. The Admin can see all contacts. A sales person could keep a tandem database of contacts no matter what CRM tool the company uses. Highrise just makes it ridiculously easy to do.
DHH is completely missing the point and on multiple levels.
1. A corporate CRM system is not intended to store personal information. Contacts and all other data stored in the system is owned by the company, not the individual. Most employment agreements make this point explicitly.
2. The issue is not whether or not users have a right to privacy. It is whether the system provides a comprehensive security architecture or not. And Dave is right, High Rise does not. Even very small businesses who have only 2 or 3 sales people require the ability to prevent individual sales people from accessing other sales people's leads, customers, and deals, while at the same time providing the sales manager, usually the owner of the company, with complete visibility of all the sales activity of all the sales people.
3. In High Rise data access control is placed in the hands of the individual user and is managed on a record by record basis. Not only is this a risky and inefficient method of access control, there is no method provided by High Rise to identify who has access to what records. This is a gaping security loop hole.
4. A comprehensive security architecture with access control rules that can be applied efficiently and consistently across all users and all records in the data base is something completely different from a "corporate surveillance" system. The issue is not whether big brother is watching. It is that you cannot manage your sales team, sales processes and customer support procedures effectively without a security architecture.
In addition to the points Dave makes, I would argue the single biggest drawback to High Rise from a sales management perspective is the lack of ability to manage the sales pipeline and sales process.
In High Rise revenue is tracked with the Deal record. A Deal can be of one of three types, Pending, Won or Lost. You can filter Deals by any of these three criteria. This is probably sufficient if your sales cycle is comprised of only two possible stages, 'Pending then Won' or 'Pending then Lost'. But most sales processes are far more complex. Furthermore, there is no way to sort Deal records by the dollar amount or any other value. Nor is there a way to project a future date that a deal is expected to be closed. And since users can determine whether or not a Deal is visible to other users, such as the sales manager, it is not possible for the sales manager to get a reliable answer to even the most basic queries such as; "How much revenue is Joe going to bring in next quarter?" Or, "How many of our deals are in the final negotiation stage and need to be closed this month?" Or, "What is the total value of our pipeline for this year?" To be fair, you can filter Deals in High Rise by historic time frames, but not future time frames.
Other major drawbacks: no way to distinguish leads, suspects, prospects, etc. from customers, no ability to capture leads from web sites, no outbound email, no reporting capabilities of any kind, no ability to assign and track performance against quotas, no customization capabilities of any kind, no ability to sort records in any way other than alphabetic order
I think High Rise is OK as a contact manager, especially for individuals or small companies who do not have a requirement to track the sales pipeline or manage sales people. But, I don't see it as a viable CRM or SFA solution for the reasons listed above.
I have been using Highrise for almost a year now and although I continue to use it, it's not because I like it. It's because it is entirely cheap and easy to use. At my corporate day job, the org uses Microsoft CRM and I have to say I like it much better. Of course, we're comparing peanuts to caviar here in pricing. In a start-up environment Highrise CRM does a good job at what it's mean to do. I agree with Dave and some of the other commenters. It would only take a little bit to make this product better. Security and better role permissions would definitely help. The interface is also cumbersome without any flexibility. Overall, Highrise's strength is it's simplicity and it does well in the low-end CRM segment. If my company grew, I wouldn't hesitate to move onto another product.
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I just love Basecamp. Nothing helps a project go smoother. I am just as happy now with Basecamp as when we first started using it.
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But I think nearly all SaaS margin comparisons make a very fatal mistake. They assume that the margin the SaaS vendor pays will remain constant.
When the market is new and companies buy like crazy to adopt a new technology the SaaS vendors will pay out almost whatever is needed in margin to keep new customers flowing and win market share.
Need proof? Fast forward to 2010 where on-premise software is considered a saturated (stagnant) market and what happens? The on-premise publishers have to monkey with tier to keep earnings constant or growing. It comes out of the VAR pocket and into the publisher. Zero sum gain for the customer. Definitely not zero sum for the VAR.
The same tier gymnastics is going to happen with SaaS -- only the market's so new at the moment that nobody cares (or thinks about it).
The only relevant goal for VARS looking to form long term businesses that someone would want to buy (know anyone looking to buy ERP businesses today?) is that they MUST build their OWN recurring revenue (special sauce).
Anyone building a business based solely on the courtesy of a software publisher (on-premise or SaaS or whatever the next big thing is) to continue to pay them a margin is foolish.
This post was mentioned on Twitter by CustomerFX: Will Sage SalesLogix Cloud Edition Level the Playing Field for Business Partners? http://bit.ly/4VPlLn
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Another video from Socialnomics author Erik Qualman.
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With the pending release of SalesLogix Cloud Edition, it seems like a good time to lay out what Customer FX has been doing in this area.
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The cloud was still not the term used for SaaS apps, I think On Demand was the buzzword of the day, and the adoption of Basecamp was not part of a grand plan. It was very simple, affordable, and solved some business issues.
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Social media was just starting to explode, Facebook was not at 300 million users yet, but was growing like crazy. Twitter was also growing fast but was a year or so from blowing up big-time. We were just playing around at first, and set up our blogs to
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We have been blogging since 2002, before it was even called blogging. We had an article site that allowed comments at crmdeveloper.com, now part of our main site. We started slxdeveloper.com in 2002 as an article and developer forum, now called social
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Yammer. Wow. This app has been a great addition to our portfolio. Part private Twitter, part company portal, part group IM, Only $3 or $5 per person, per month. Big shout out to @yammer on Twitter. Will be integrating with SalesLogix Cloud for sure.
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This has been a huge win for us. For the last umpteen years we were running Microsoft Exchange, which did the job, but required more and more hardware and more and more time to patch, upgrade and maintain.
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Another huge win for us. We are using GitHub for team developement collaboration and source control, internally and with our clients as part of the dev team. We are also using GitHub to host our SalesLogix Open Source projects.
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E-Signatures. Eliminating printing, signing and faxing/scanning contracts, sales orders, and all of the
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Love the headline. BTW, in case you're wondering, this is the correct way to hold an iPhone4 http://twitpic.com/1zus0g
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Nice video for me.
With the start of our fiscal year yesterday, we've moved to Quickbooks Online for our accounting system. Our old windows, client server solution was too expensive and hard to maintain.
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thx for post's .....interesting
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